tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post5161451497798671861..comments2023-05-29T05:12:51.200-07:00Comments on Four Ounces: Avengers: what I liked, what I would have changedUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post-11244470973134874992012-05-16T15:33:26.241-07:002012-05-16T15:33:26.241-07:00And, they do the focus groups at various stages of...And, they do the focus groups at various stages of production. They don't wait for the end to try and splice something together.Ellen Beth Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02437707135406101498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post-56456998255394733952012-05-16T15:28:55.401-07:002012-05-16T15:28:55.401-07:00Nonsensical not to look at the reality. It's s...Nonsensical not to look at the reality. It's sort if like ignoring the person who blogged the district for a decade and believing people who knew nothing about the district just because you prefer hanging out with them. You enjoy those hero figure movies, so you decide to see them as having a purety They likely don't have.Ellen Beth Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02437707135406101498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post-7113096002831514782012-05-15T14:56:48.961-07:002012-05-15T14:56:48.961-07:00OK. Making big budget films is an economic activit...OK. Making big budget films is an economic activity in our society. And we should keep this in mind.<br /><br />In the speech Existentialism is a Humanism, Sartre said it was nonsensical to talk about "What if Marcel Proust wrote another book?" Proust wrote the books he wrote.<br /><br />When discussing movies, it probably makes sense to discuss the film that was released.<br /><br />If there is reason to believe a specific alternate version exists, then that specific version can be discussed.<br /><br />But I do not assume that there were effectively an infinite number of films and the studio executives screened all the versions to focus groups and then spliced together the best parts from all films.<br /><br />I do not rule it out as a possibility, but it seems like there needs to be some evidence things went down this way.Nyberg, Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15784252678181056809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post-48311333156694012892012-05-15T14:30:06.962-07:002012-05-15T14:30:06.962-07:00The ending of Fatal Attraction was well known to h...The ending of Fatal Attraction was well known to have been changed by a focus group--the Glenn Close character was the good guy in the original script which was about a loser cheating husband and the havoc he caused until they decided to make the woman evil because that appeared to sell better. I have also seen posts on the Internet claiming other movie endings were changed by focus groups such as I Am Legend and Dodgeball. There is also the Pretty In Pink ending, as written Molly Ringwald ends up with the John Cryer character and not Andrew McCarthy. The Film Screening wiki devotes a section to the use of focus group screenings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_screening#Focus_group_screening. There's an entire company called U.S. Audiences devoted to finding audiences for screenings, including focus group screenings. I'm not making this stuff up anymore than I made up the likely outcome of the IL-10 congressional election which turned out to be the actual outcome. I would agree with you that many if not most Hollywood executives are probably arrogant, but they also want to make a lot of money which probably makes them at least a little smarter than that guy over at JP Morgan.Ellen Beth Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02437707135406101498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post-27183155023407113162012-05-13T06:23:59.147-07:002012-05-13T06:23:59.147-07:00How do you tell a story that encourages people to ...How do you tell a story that encourages people to be heroic? How do you tell this story in a way that makes the audience feel empowered to be heroes in their own lives?<br /><br />I think <a href="http://four-ounces.blogspot.com/2012/04/hunger-games-how-immoral-does-society.html" rel="nofollow">Hunger Games</a> did a particularly good job of critiquing what we're up against in society. But the hero of the story is someone who is thrust into the role and ultimately plays a role in transforming society.Nyberg, Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15784252678181056809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post-38061384448583840722012-05-13T06:19:01.964-07:002012-05-13T06:19:01.964-07:00I have heard the comment--maybe in a documentary?-...I have heard the comment--maybe in a documentary?--that at one point there was a school of thought that superheroes were inherently fascist. The emphasis on physical strength, an elite hero or team, etc.<br /><br />The superhero story de-values the true source of progress and problem solving: human cooperation.<br /><br />There is some truth to this. And it's a perspective that probably deserves more attention.<br /><br />However, the criticism that a story emphasizes the role of the individual over the power of collective action kinda applies to fiction in general. A story tells of a protagonist that has a journey and makes a decision and reveals his/her character in the decision.<br /><br />The writing (and other media) about collective action tends to be non-fiction.<br /><br />So, it's a little unfair to indict the superhero genre as enabling a fascist worldview without noting that all fiction tells stories through individuals.Nyberg, Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15784252678181056809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post-23863579388708058442012-05-13T06:08:25.175-07:002012-05-13T06:08:25.175-07:00I didn't pick up on the discussion of energy a...I didn't pick up on the discussion of energy as being green the way the Alter Net's Shepherd did.<br /><br />To me it felt like hawking the Fountain of Youth or a perpetual motion machine.<br /><br />The message seemed to be that if we give geniuses and industrialists enough resources they will "fix" the energy problem.<br /><br />Of course, the real fix is going to involve changing the way we live. We need to live more efficiently and have more social discipline. See <a href="http://four-ounces.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-kind-of-culture-is-needed-to.html" rel="nofollow">the quote by Lester Thurow</a>.<br /><br />While the Left is often pushing various forms of solar energy, the sources all have drawbacks too. The metals involved in making the batteries to store the energy are toxic. Wind turbines make noise and kill birds. Etc.<br /><br />So, my take on the movie's take on energy is that the film re-enforces unrealistic expectations on energy more than it promotes a "green energy" agenda.Nyberg, Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15784252678181056809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post-34642939813470667262012-05-13T05:54:04.404-07:002012-05-13T05:54:04.404-07:00While I will fully agree that the corporation inve...While I will fully agree that the corporation invested with the hope and expectation of getting return on its investment, something seems wrong about reducing the discussion of a work of art to a discussion of the corporate culture that provided the capital for the art.<br /><br />Is there evidence that big budget movies are made in a process that includes the kind of focus groups you describe? What triggers the studios using these focus groups? At what point in the process are they used?<br /><br />My suspicion is that Hollywood executives are arrogant and think they know what makes a great movie. I'm open to learning that other things play a role.Nyberg, Carlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15784252678181056809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8545325128987261938.post-52185465476693658762012-05-12T08:25:02.788-07:002012-05-12T08:25:02.788-07:00Most likely the studio did whatever it thought wou...Most likely the studio did whatever it thought would make more money. They probably held focus groups that controlled what the characters looked like, what they said, how they said it and how the story ended. There is no pure art in a Walt Disney Company conglomerate movie. The only good news that I'd see here is that some of the environmentalist stuff has made it into the mainstream enough to make the cut. The bad news is that people are still looking for heroes, too afraid to be the heroes themselves.Ellen Beth Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02437707135406101498noreply@blogger.com